Oh no not again omg: :

ALEX

Your wrong again you wally resistance fall of man only had 4.5 GB game.

Your one of millions of PS3 fan boys that has been brain washed by sony hook line and sinker. All because of the now infamous Resistance fall of man 22GB Blu-ray marketing scam.

If you type "Resistance Fall of man disk space" as a search you will get millions of results explaning how Insomniac added 17.75 of unessasary padding files.

Resistance: Fall of Man was billed to be the defining game for why Blu-ray exists in the first place. Resistance developers Insomniac stated that the game took up 22 GB of space and that all those bits and bytes were necessary to make the game work.

A gamer exsposed Insomniac and unveild by ripping the disk in Linux shows otherwise.

A NeoGAF forum member by the name of squatingyeti who is now world famous posted a long list of padding files on the Resistance disk; the padding took up approximately 17.75GB of space. Padding is frequently used to push data to the outer edges of the disk to improve read times, but Blu-ray is supposed to be a constant read over the entire disk.

This was then investigated buy the gaming governing bodys and confirmation in a report proved that the actual game only used 4.5GB

And it proved that 81% of Resistance is just empty filler and the actual game itself was only 4.5GB and could fit on a single-layer DVD.

This has put a hole in Sony's claim that Blu-ray is absolutely necessary this generation.

The 17.75GB padding was not needed to make the read speeds any better and is a lame way for Sony to justify Blu-ray for gaming.

Sony and Insomniac are going court soon because of this and it could cost sony millions.

Doh

Also a normal xbox 360 dual layer DVD is 9.5 GB but microsoft said that the xbox 360 hybrid DVD's can be increased to up to 60GB by dual layering if needed.
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Haha! Taken to court for padding their discs? Who's prosecuting them? The 'games governing body'? Who's that then?

I typed "Resistance Fall of man disk space" into Google and it returned 2 results. Both forums where they were talking about it using 22GB. All I've found are a few reputable sources giving the 22GB figure (IGN, MTV) The Wikipedia entry gives it as 16GB stating that it was reduced from 22GB because the video files could be converted effectively from NTSC to PAL by the console without having to have two separate encoding. Yeah it could all be low compression on the graphics and sounds. My fact (22GB of the disc space is used) stands.
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The Wikipedia article on Resistance actually says the game is 16GB. It was supposed to be 22GB, but Insomniac decided to remove the NTSC movies from it because the PS3 can just convert the PAL ones on the fly anyway, so they were unnecessary. Say what you want about Wikipedia, but if there were some real controversy about the storage space the game uses, it would've been mentioned there. They love stuff like that.

As for other size related things, The Darkness was made to fit on a DVD9, but the PS3 version utilizes the extra space available for a lot of extra content. Mainly movies and TV-shows that can be viewed on TVs in the game. There are several entire movies and entire seasons of TV-shows on there. For example, early on in the game the main character sits down with his girlfriend to watch To Kill A Mockingbird on TV. According to the plot, the next thing you should do is walk over to the phone and call somebody, but you can sit there and watch that entire movie first if you feel so inclined. Things like that.

Then there's also the recent news from Rockstar, that one of their next titles will be PS3 exclusive because only it has the hardware for what they're planning to do. They still haven't released any more details around that, just that newsbit.
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I don't access the forum for a weekend and I miss all the excitement!

First lets clear a few things up....

Harddrive sizes and pricing have nothing to do with optical media. Harddrives reduce in price over time because technology moves forward. The biggest factor for the cost of an HD is the amount of data that can be fitted onto each platter of an HD. The more you can fot per square inch the less platters you need in a harddrive and so less platters means cheaper manufacturing. And large HDs are dropping this year because of the change in particle polarisation techniques now being used on the disc surface meaning a lot more data can now be fitted on the platters.

Now to Blu-Ray. Yes in a couple of labs engineers have managed to successfully fit 400GB onto a Blu-Ray disc. But it must be stressed that this is a single lab experiment and not a commercial venture. The PS3 is fitted with a standard Blu-Ray drive capable of reading 25GB single layer and 50GB dual layer blu-ray discs and this will not change during the life of the PS3. Once hardware goes to market it remains set for the life of the console.

Now to HD-DVD and the Xbox 360. The add-on drive for the 360 is exclusively for movies, and Microsoft recently confirmed that the drive will not ever be used for games. Therefore the 360 is stuck with the standard DVD drive. And BLue Jedi, the Xbox 360 drive is not some special different drive, it is a standard off the shelf DVD drive as you would find in any PC. So it will only hold 4.3GB single layer and 8.5GB dual layer. No more.

And I strongly disagree regarding your claims that games developers are struggling to fill even normal DVD. Why are some PC games released on DVD9 discs if the developers cannot even fill single layer DVD5 discs? And some games even come on 2 discs now. The big increase in file sizes will especially come with HD video clips used within the development of games. HD files are on average 4 times bigger than standard definition video. Therefore they take up a lot more room. Also texture maps within the games now need to be much higher resolution and bigger in dimensions for HD sizes resolutions. This all takes up much more space and therefore developers will easily find ways to use all of the space available on a Blu-Ray disc.

The problem the Xbox 360 has is that once developers start to utilise the large storage space of the Blu-Ray discs for in game quality, if the same game then gets releases on the Xbox 360 the developer is going to have to reduce the quality of the in game graphics and possibly the video sequences too so that it all fits on the DVD media. This is definitely not a good thing.
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I still belive its because of blu-ray disks tremendous storage capacity that has caused prices to reduce but it could also be down to many other reasons.

What ever happens Panasonics new dual layered and Quad layered Blu-rays of 100 gig and 500 gig and double that and even higher are going to be awsome.

The Xbox 360 dual layer DVD's actually have 9.5 gig of space to be precise.

However Micorsofts are working on a newer Xbox 360 Hybrid Dual layered DVD Disc just for use on the 360 and it can hold up to 60 gig but they wont release it because it is unlikely we need more than 10 gig for the current next gen consoles and.

Devlopers have stated that the current next gen consoles wont need more than 10 gig let alone 50 or 60 gigs developers dont have time and unless they spend a few years making one game its not going to happen because developers are expected to release a sequel every year. Not only that it would take gamers to long to complete a game.

Whatever happens if we do get games of 50-60 gig it would be value for money.

Unless developers are going to add 17.5 gig of padding files to a 4.5 gig Resistance fall of man to max up the disks to 22 gig then I dont rekon it will happen either.

Ouch sory Sony that was a low blow
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Padding a disc with dummy files is a long held technique to push data either into the centre of a disc or out to the edge (depending on how the machine's drive works). This is a very common practice on Dreamcast discs to make then load quicker. It isn't illegal and has been used for a long time so isn't really anything to get worked up about.

As for the actual percentage of any current game's disc being used, does that really matter? The PS3 has only just come out so it's first wave of games are less likely to utilise the full size of the Blu-Ray media and none need to use dual layer media yet, but this will change.

Wait until all of the RPGs currently in development for the PS3 start to appear. Then you will see what the extra storage space can deliver. Trust me, once this happens the Xbox 360's 8.5GB storage size will become a problem for developers trying to achieve similar results on the Xbox 360.
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Remember when the PS2 first came out, some of it's games still used CD's. However today practically all it's games come on a DVD.

As Harrison says, the extra space will definately come into play when the RPG's start getting released. These usually do take several years to make. I can also see features such as 5.1 channel sound (or better), multiple language voice tracks etc. making use of some of the space.
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Nope. It has nothing to do with it. Optical removable storage and fixed storage are two different markets that share no technology (other than spinning on circular media). Prices of each media dropping is due to technological advances in their respective fields reducing manufacturing costs through cheaper manufacturing techniques.

Any new technology such as Blu-Ray drives and media will always be expensive at release due to the technology being new and knowledge of it's manufacturer being limited. As will all things in life, as knowledge is gained through use and development, cheaper solutions are found to reduce cost, and larger manufacturer in bulk brings cost down as demand rises. It is the nature of industry.

I can guarantee you will not see these in general use any time soon. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are the current next generation fixed optical storage media in the market place now. Releasing an updated larger capacity format that is not 100% compatible with existing players and drives is commercial suicide as it brings into play proprietary technology required to access the media. Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD were invented as generic formats to be able to handle the great file size demands of HD video and 25-50GB is deemed as being more than large enough for this format.[/quote]

The only area you may see larger storage based on multi layer Blu-Ray is in the business sector, and this will be purely for backup purposes and mass storage. I very much doubt that any larger capacity hybrid versions of Blu-Ray will ever be seen in this generation for the home user. Especially not in with the Xbox or PS3. Their hardware specs are both set in stone. Altering them now would alienate an existing userbase.

The Xbox 360 uses a standard DVD drive. Dual layer DVDs can only hold 8.5GB of data. No more. You might be getting the 9.5GB figure from the fact that some manufacturers quote capacity sizes based on unformatted disc space, rather than the space available to actually hold the data.

Links please?

I only need mention one thing. High definition video! Video game code will never need to use more than a few GBs at most for the actual code, and other files. The larger files sizes, as I'm mentioned before, will come from the high definition video needed to make the games look their best. Games on the PS2 already contained a few hours of pre-rendered video and later games easily used the full space available on the PS2's DVD drive, often requiring some games to be released on DVD9 media. So if the PS2 developers were already running out of space on the PS2's using standard resolution video quality, imagine how much more space they will need for high definition quality video of the same length? The Xbox 360 only has the same media storage space as the PS2. Not good. And that is a fact!

Whatever happens if we do get games of 50-60 gig it would be value for money.[/quote]

What does that have to do with Sony? Games are developed by games developers and released by games publishers. Where does Sony come into it? The way a disc is formatted and it's contents laid out comes down to the developers of the game, not the manufacturer of the console. Have you not read of how developers utilise hardware by exploiting everything to get the most out of it? This is all the technique of padding is on a disc.

ps. This forum has a spell checker built in. Any chance you could start using it?
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I doubt anything you say is going to change Blue Jedi's views and opinions, and his general negative attitude towards Sony. You'd think Sony set fire to his home, robbed his bank account AND ran over his pet dog twice to deserve the intense hate I see here.

So yeah, let's all bow down to Microsoft and worship them like the second comings of Jesus Christ. They're the saviours, and can do no wrong! Obviously, they're magicians too, because they can magically make bog-standard DVD drives suddenly be able to read 60GB discs. Wait, while they're at it, mayhap they can increase the storage capacity of my floppy disc drive by 60GB too? That would be, ya know, awsome.

Did someone mention anything about 'brain washing' earlier in the thread?
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That is one of the reasons why Padding files can be added dreamcast used them for loading times not fraud.

And insominacs would not need 17.5 gigs worth of dud padding files for a 4.5 gig game.

The reason why there is such a big deal being made about how insomniac added 17.5gig of padding files to a 4.5 gig of actual game is because it was not there for making the game run quicker.

The game was surpose to be 22 gig of actual playable game content and in fact its been found that the files were unesassay padding files.

These padding files were dud padding files that were added at sonys request just to fill space to max the game to 22gig. These files would not of speeded the game up and the game itself is only 4.5 gig and did not push the boundrys of graphics.

The game was sold on the basis that there is 22gig of playable game content and in fact there was only 4.5 gig Insomniac and Sony will be facing haevy fines.

Resistance Fall of man will be Sonys most Exspensive game of all time they were sued for using a cathederal without permision and now they are to be inverstigated and could be sued big for this.

You got to laugth.

Resistance fall of man is good though.
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